MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

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MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:10 am

Hello,

Hoping to make a cousin connection! I'm working on a Morales line that includes the following individuals:

1: Antonio Morales b: abt 1790; m: Antonia Clara; lived in Reus, Taragonna, Spain
2: Manuel Morales y Clara b: abt 1808; m: Maria Merced y Hernandez bef 1832; m: Unknown Rildou abt 1840; m: Elisabet Juana Hodge 21 June 1852 in Inmaculada Concepcion Church in Vieques, Puerto Rico; d: Vieques bef 1908. (Both Maria and Elisabet had ties to St. Martin)
3: Jose'Felix Morales y Merced b: 1833 in Vieques, Puerto Rico; m: Ynes (Agnes) Hodge y Desrat
3: Armando Morales y Rildou/Rildous/Rildout b: abt 1840; m: Petra Cano y Garcia
3: Victorina Francisca Morales y Hodge b: 4 Oct 1851
3: Juan Ernesto Apolinario Morales y Hodge b: 23 July 1853; m: Anicasia Suarez y Correa abt 1881 in Vieques, Puerto Rico; m: Maria Petronila Rivera y Tirado 21 December 1896 on the Isle of Culebra.

If any of these folks sound familiar, please feel free to contact me! Good luck in your searches!

Cherre
Last edited by errehc on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby Playacofi » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:49 am

Good morning Cherre,

I live on Vieques and dabble pretty much all day . with geneology.

I would be glad to help you. Could you please be more specific. Are you looking for confirmation that they lived here such as dates or are you looking for family trees for these particular people?

Are you searching for photos of headstones to upload onto another site such as Ancestry?

Please let me know.

Karen
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:19 pm

Hi Karen,

Really, I'm not particular! Any of the above would be great! Basically, here is what I know and what I am currently trying to figure out ...

I know Manuel Morales y Clara immigrated to Vieques/San Martin from Reus, Tarragona Spain either before or after he married Maria de la Merced-Hernandez. Family lore has it that he was in San Martin prior to the birth of his and Maria's son, Jose' Felix Morales-Merced who was reportedly born in Vieques because he wanted his son to have Spanish citizenship. Whether he and Maria actually lived in Vieques for any period of time is still up up debate.I also know he subsequently had two wives - "ChuChu"(This is a nickname, still haven't found her real name) Rildou and Elisabet Juana Hodge. He had a son with "ChuChu" -Armando Morales y Rildou (Rildout/Rildous) and a third son with Elisabet - Juan Ernesto Apolinario Morales-Hodge. We used to think "ChuChu" was the second wife and Elisabet was his third wife, but then I found his marriage record with Elisabet and he is listed as the son of Antonio Morales and Antonia Clara and the widow of Maria Merced-Hernandez. So now I'm not sure where "ChuChu" fits in. I do know she fits, because extended family members know of one another. In any case, I also found an Isabel Morales y Clara who I'm thinking was his sister, but I can't find any documentation to back that up. The problem with the trees on ancestry.com is they all reference one another and so even tho there's like 4 or 5 trees that list Isabel's parents as Antonio Morales and Antonia Clara, I can't find the original documentation to back up the claim. Another mystery is the fact Manuel's son, Jose' Felix, (AKA Joseph) is known to have married an Ynes "Agnes" Hodge - what her relationship to his wife, Elisabet, could have been is also an unknown. :-P So that's pretty much where I'm at. I think Manuel was one the Manuel's referenced in La Migración de Puerto Rico Durante el siglo XIX but I'm not really sure.

Here's what I have documentation of or have been told by what I consider to be reliable, known sources:

Antonio Morales and Antonia Clara lived in Reus, Tarragona, Spain. They had a son, Manuel Morales y Clara, who subsequently married Maria and Elisabet. He is also believed to have married "ChuChu". He reportedly lived in San Martin but at least four of his children were born/baptized in Vieques.

Manuel and Maria had a son, Jose'(Joseph) Felix Morales-Merced bc: 1833 in Vieques, Puerto Rico
Manuel and ChuChu had a son, Armando Morales-Rildou (Rildous/Rildout) bc: 1840 in Vieques, Puerto Rico
Manuel and Elisabet had a daughter, Victorina Francisca Morales-Hodge b: 04 October 1851 and a son, Juan Ernesto Apolinario Morales-Hodge b: 23 July 1853.

I have Juan Ernesto's marriage certificate to his second wife and his death certificate. I have birth certificates on all his children by both wives. I have his first wife, Anicasia's, death certificate. I have the marriage certificate of Manuel to his second/third wife, Elisabet. I was given the birth dates of Victorina and Ernesto by a gentleman . who said he was indexing "The first baptismal record of Vieques". But he never responded to my attempts to e-mail him back. I found Ernesto on the 1910 census in Vieques, Vieques. I know all of his children were born in Vieques, Puerto Rico. And that Ernesto's children by his first wife, Anicasia Suarez-Correa were born, specifically, in Mosquitos, Vieques, Puerto Rico. I probably have further info I've neglected to mention - but I think that's it... . I know this is clear as mud. As I said, any info on any of the above would be greatly appreciated as another piece in our family history puzzle!! Thanks so much!

Cherre
Last edited by errehc on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:59 pm

PS

I was told the dates referencing Victorina and Juan Ernesto were BIRTH dates but I'm wondering if they were actually baptismal dates... .

Thanks again,

Cherre
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby Playacofi » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:08 pm

Hi Cherre,

I have put my family away for the day and will concentrate on yours tomorrow (a change always does one good)

Could you give me an idea of what sites you have already searched for your Moreles and Hodge families. That way we do not double work it.

If I am not mistaken all of the original birth certificate/baptismals/marriage records are still retained here on the island. They are at the Museo Fuerte Conde de Mirasol which does not open to the public until Wednesday. I will call the Curator and ask to make an appt. to go through the files but I need to line up a friend who reads spanish better than I do to go with me. It shouldn't be a problem.

Meanwhile I will start looking ..

I will pick apart your messages to see what you have copies of and what you do not.

I can also visit the old cemetery which is a stones throw from my house and grab photos of anything that is revelant.

So please let me know which sites you have visited.

Karen
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:11 am

Hi Karen,

I have reviewed most of the Roman Catholic Church Records that the LDS uploaded to the web. Thanks to them I have copies of the:
MARRIAGE RECORD of Manuel Morales y Clara and Elisabet Juana Hodge/Hordge.
MARRIAGE RECORD of Ynes(Agnes) Hodge y Desrat(sp?) and Jose' (Joseph) Morales y Merced
DEATH RECORD of Leocadia Santiago y Hodge
DEATH RECORD of Paula Victoria Renaudin(sp?) y Hodge

I also have reviewed most of the census records available on Ancestry.com.

I obtained from the registrar years ago the:
MARRIAGE RECORD of Juan Ernesto Apolinario Morales y Hodge/Hordge and Maria Petronila Rivera y Tirado
BIRTH RECORDS of all Juan Ernesto's children with both Anicasia Suarezy Correa and Maria Petronila
DEATH RECORD of Anicasia Suarez y Correa
DEATH RECORD of Juan Ernesto Apolinario Morales y Hodge

I've come up empty after reviewing the following sites .:
Find A Grave
Carribbean GenWeb
Familysearch.com (general search)
Most message boards . that I could find

I've done individual name searches on the following search engines and come up empty:
Google.com
Rootsweb.com
Dogpile.com


I was able to get a copy of Estela Cifre de Loubriel's book, "La Formacion del PUeblo Puertorriqueno - La Contribucion de los Catalanes, Balearicos and Valencianos". But didn't find any references to my folks in that book. I know there are 2 Manuel Morales' in her book that I mentioned in the previous e-mail, but it's out of print and I so I've not been able to read the exact reference. A gentleman at Hunter's College in New York e-mailed me some informtion but to date I've been unable to confirm which if either Manuel she mentioned is ours.

Finally, I've left search messages everywhere I could find to leave them but have never gotten a connection ... other than when that gentleman e-mailed me about Juan Ernesto and his sister, Victorina's birth dates. But like I said he never responded to my follow up e-mail.

FYI - Anicasia Suarez y Correa de Morales (Ernesto's wife) death record indicates that she was buried in the "Cementerio General" of Vieques. And her husband, Juan Ernesto's death certificate states that plans were to bury him in the cemetery on Vieques. So I've always wondered if there might be a headstone there.

Based on my review of Ernesto's death certificate, it looks like his father, Manuel Morales y Clara was "the declarant" and so was still living in 1916. But I've not been able to find any reference to Manuel in the 1910 census. Of course up until this precise moment I don't think it occured to me to look outside of Vieques for him. I'm going to go to Ancestry.com when I'm done posting this and see if there's something on him in Humacao ... . I do know Juan Ernesto, based on the census was in Vieques in 1910.

And that's about everything I know to do. I really appreciate your interest/willingness to have a look around to see what you might be able to discover on the island. Thank you again!

Take care,

Cherre

By the way, what lines are YOU searching??
Last edited by errehc on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
errehc
 
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby Playacofi » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:07 am

Cherre,
Do you remember the name of the gentleman who told you he was indexing the baptismal records?
You stated that you have received some records from the registrar. Does that mean you have already been through the Vieques records? Have you visited Vieques?
As for our cemetery we have an “old” cemetery and a “new” cemetery. Your folks would definitely be in the old one. Occasionally there are some folks still buried there (stacked) but for the last 10-15 years the new one has been used. I say that because when we first moved here 8.5 years ago there were not very many people there unless they were buried without headstones.
I have the whole 1910 Vieques census printed but a few years ago I gave it to my housekeeper thinking she would appreciate it more. I will see if she still has it and ask to borrow it. I think it would be easier to go through that than attempt an . search, due to name spellings etc.

I’ll ask around today to see if anyone can tell me what the nickname Chu-Chu comes from. Chu itself is a very popular nickname for men. My neighbor’s nickname is Chu and his given name is Jose’ so I am not sure if all Chu’s are Jose’s or if they are random nicknames. But I will ask.

I have to run to the store soon so if the cemetery gates are open I will pop in.

Karen
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:52 am

Good Morning!

I've been to Puerto Rico twice and Vieques once. The first time I came was back in the 90's. I took my daughters. Wanted to see Vieques cause my Grandfather, Dolores Armando Morales y Suarez, was born there in 1891 and I wanted to see if I could locate current family members. Unfortunately Hurricane Berta had other plans for my short stay. :-P The second time I visited the island was in 2004. I had managed to peek the interest of my uncle and aunt and so we all went for a 10 day stay. By that time I had found our cousins in Santurce. So we had a really nice visit and we all did manage to get to Vieques. It truly was an amazing visit. Unfortunately at the time I didn't realize how important it would be to pre-arrange appointments to see actual records and the like. We did visit a couple of cemeteries in San Juan but didn't get to see the one on Vieques. We went to the museum on Vieques but I wasn't prepared for what I would need in order to really be able to do any research. So while I REALLY loved being there and totally enjoyed both islands, genealogically speaking it was not a productive trip. So in answer to your question, I really have not gone thru any records on Vieques. The birth records I have I got thru contacting the registrar. She sent me the birth, death and marriage records I mentioned. She was extreemly helpful, actually sending me more than than I had requested. We had no clue that Ernesto had six children by his second wife, let alone their names. And we actually only knew of 5 of his six children by his first wife, my great grandmother, Anicasia. Thanks to her assistance we located family here in the states who are descendants of his second wife, Maria Petronila. That was really neat. We had a reunion here in Ohio a few years ago and everybody came. It was fantastic. So many similarities between the families! Luckily we've all been able to stay in pretty close contact ever since thanks to the internet. :-)

You said, "occasionally" there are still people buried at the "old" cemetery. What happens to them? Here in the states, normally once you're buried, that's pretty much where you stay permanently ... . It's different there?

Thanks!

Cherre
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby Playacofi » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:37 pm

Hi Cherre,

I just spent about an hour at the old cemetery and virtually got nowhere. Let me explain.

The cemetery is not like the cemeteries in the states where everyone is lined up in neat little rows. Down here they were placed (island rumor) facing the direction from which their ancestors were from. For example if they were from St Croix or places in the southern Carib they were facing south. If they were from St. Thomas, they would face east, if they were from PR they would face north.....

Most of the older stones have no markings on them. They never really had headstones, in Vieques everyone has a raised crypt (this only applies at the old cemetary). I imagine it is built mostly on rock. So older graves will have a cross made of concrete and a stone tablet attched to the crypt. About 1/4 of the graves are missing their stone tablet with the persons name, db, dd, etc.

In that hours I probably walked about 1/15th - 1/20th of the cemetery and in that area missed I am guessing 1/4 of them. They crypts just ramble in so many direction I know I did not see them all but I sure attempted to.

Families that have remained for many years on the island still maintain and purchase new crypts. I will attempt to attach a photo now of one of the Morales Family crypts. If the photo actually works you will notice that it is brand new. The right side of it that has the praying hands actually is engraved with those that are inside. (It started raining again so I did not get a chance to look at it) Basically when I said that some people are still added if you notice in the picture, the 2 top pieces of the crypt can be removed and cremated remains can be put inside. I will now attempt to attach it. If it does not work send me a PM with your email.

Image

So what I will do is see if there is actually a list and locations for the graves. That is a 50/50 shot.

I was told a few years ago by the Curator, Robert Rabin, that the archives then were being properly filed and available to the public. I need to check with him for the procedure of viewing them and making copies. I do know one thing. It is going to probably be hot as **** in there. If you have been to the Fort, I am sure you remember there is no A/C...Ughhh.

I saw that you posted on another forum years ago a question about your ancestors brother owning a sugar plantation on Culebra. s far as I know, there were no plantations over there. I have a friend that lives there that is currently in the States and when she gets back I will ask her to verify that.

I also spoke with my housekeeper who said her Dad still has (or hopes he has) the 1910 Vieques Census that I printed. If I have that it will be so much easier because years ago I highlighted every citizen of Vieques that was born in a foreign land (or parents that were). It also breaks it down into barrios that no longer exist due to the Navy taking most of those lands.

By the way, the first Hodges that settled on Vieques that I could find were from Anguilla and they settled here in 1717 but I can almost say for sure that that is not part of your Hodges family. There were to many nations that attempted settlements on Vieques after that.

Morales as you know is a prominant family here in Vieques but I have no clue if your family is connected yet. I will go to the Morales Warehouse (case shopping) and ask if there is a family historian on the island. There must be someone in the family that holds some of these answers.

Have you tried looking into St Croix? Many families from Vieques moved to St Croix throughout the years, just a thought.

On a request that you put out in 2002 you mentioned Elisa Juana Hodge b. 1825 in St. Martin, Guadelupe, France. The Carib has an island of Guadelupe and also an island of Saint Martin (french side) / Sint Maarten (dutch side). Is it possible that you confused to two islands toghether or is there perhaps a barrio on Guadelupe named St. Martin. I am just trying to figure out which island to start searching.

Ok enough for now.

Karen
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:31 pm

Hi Karen,

Wow. You already did aLOT. Please don't wear yourself out with this! I appreciate everything you have done! The information you've given is very interesting. As far as Elisa goes... At first the information we had was that her name was: Elisa Juana Hodge and she was born in San Martin. In the beginning I had no clue about the islands ... I thought St.Martin French and Dutch combined WERE Guadeloupe. More recently through the death certificates and marriage certificates listed above we discovered her name is: Elisabet Juana Hodge and she is from the French St. Martin.

Thank you again for all your help!

Cherre

(I"ll send a PM shortly as the picture did not come through.)
Last edited by errehc on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:41 pm

Hello!

I am so NOT computer literate~ I tried to do the PM but couldn't figure it out. I'm going to have my daughter show me later tonite. :-) Hope you're having a great day!

Take care,
Cherre
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby bimjim » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:10 pm

Cherre...

Look at Playacofi's last Post again, on the RIGHT SIDE, at the top, you will see the following...

      Playacofi
      Posts: 5
      Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:57 am
      Location: Vieques, PR
      [ PM]
      <- a small icon underneath

Just click on this small icon with "PM" on it, and you will have a form come up that is already addressed to Playacofi. Just type your message and click on the "Send" or "Submit" button at the bottom.

That's all there is to it.

Best, Jim
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:05 am

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the info ... but I tried it several times and can't get it to go thru. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.... . A message comes up something to the effect of "The user you are trying to add doesn't exist."

Thanks,

Cherre
errehc
 
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby Playacofi » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:31 am

bimjim wrote:Cherre...

Look at Playacofi's last Post again, on the RIGHT SIDE, at the top, you will see the following...

      Playacofi
      Posts: 5
      Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:57 am
      Location: Vieques, PR
      [ PM]
      <- a small icon underneath

Just click on this small icon with "PM" on it, and you will have a form come up that is already addressed to Playacofi. Just type your message and click on the "Send" or "Submit" button at the bottom.

That's all there is to it.

Best, Jim


Thanks for trying to help with the PM. Feel free to PM me with requests re: Vieques.

Karen
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:57 am
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Re: MORALES - Vieques, Puerto Rico

Postby errehc » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:21 am

Hi Jim and Karen,

:-), Well, I figured out what I was doing wrong! I was writing my message in the address/URL box. When I started from scratch to compose a message, did a search to find the correct user name, and saw the resultant form that popped up, I realized what I was doing. Suffice to say, I've never had a computer class - very self taught! What can I say? Thanks to both of you for your patience!

Have a great night!

Cherre
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