GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby Emmanuel Rougier » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:41 am

To Ian Mc Hugh

Hi Ian,

Please tell me wether you received my messages and pictures.

Best regards

Emmanuel
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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby Ian McHugh » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:12 pm

Hello Emmanuel,
I sent a reply yesterday but it doesn't seem to have registered.
Yes, thank you very much for the certificates and the photo of Lilia and family.
Anyway, in summary:
I only started this family research 3 months ago - until then I had no information about the McHugh family apart from my father.
We certainly had no idea that there was a connection with St. Lucia!
The big question now is to try to find out WHY Edward Thomas came to Australia in the first place.
He was the first son of a good family and yet went on to live his life in a working class suburb in Melbourne as a waiter.
Perhaps someone in your family knows.
Here are some photos which may be of interest.
This may be a photo of Lilia's brother or his son - there is no date on it. He certainly looks like Lilia don't you agree?
This photo is a family picture taken in either 1939 or 1940.
By 1941 Dad was in the Australia army fighting the Japanese in Malaya and his mother, father and sister were all dead. Very sad.
This photo is a better on of Molly who became a Nun. She looks like Lilia a little as well.
Please keep in touch - still plenty of questions to answer.

Best Wishes - your distant cousin,

Ian
Attachments
Edward Thomas McHugh.jpg
Edward_Michael_Molly_Mary McHugh_1930.jpg
Molly(Mary Ellen) McHugh _1940.jpg
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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby Emmanuel Rougier » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:02 am

To Ian Mc Hugh

Dear Ian,

Many thanks for your answer and for the photos. In my opinion, the older photograph of the man is certainly Lilia's brother because the style of this photography is quite old. What a pity to discover you so late ! My old uncle Adrien Gallet de Saint-Aurin who was a very nice old man and very good genealogist is dead now but perhaps he would have an idea about the reason why Edouard Thomas left the west Indies to Australia (Adrien's mother was a Mac Hugh).
I don't know what was this family before coming to west Indies (Dominica, St Lucia, and Martinique later). What is surprising is that nobody has never known there was a branch of the Mac Hugh family in Australia. It is true that in St Lucia and Martinique, the Mc Hugh family was belonging to the best and well known families and got married to people belonging to the local french aristocracy (Assier de Pompignan, Rual de Lomel, Gallet de Saint-Aurin) or excellent bourgeoisie (Plissonneau Duquene, Vaudein).
My grandfather, Charles André Maurice Assier de Pompignan (who was lilia's youngest son) was dead before my birth, and his daughter (my mother) did'nt know anything about her grandmother's family.
I don't know if you know what happened in Martinique on 8 may 1902, the volcano "La Montagne Pelée" destroyed all the town of Saint-Pierre which was he capital of the island and the place or lived almost all the "good society". Lilia (her husband Anatole de Pompignan died in 1893) who was very worried by the hostile demonstrations of the volcano decided to left Saint-Pierre on 6 may to go to St Lucia by his brother 's family (Robert Georges). She left with her 3 sons (one was my grandfather Maurice de Pompignan who was 13 years old) and her eldest daughter Gabrielle de Grandmaison with her 3 little children. One was Marthe de Grandmaison, a little baby who would become my grand aunt that I have very well known and liked very much (she was married to my grandmother's brother Marcel de Reynal de St Michel). Lilia was completely ruined by this disaster which killed a big part of the family, her brother Charles, her son-in-law Gaston de Grandmaison (Marthe's father) and destroyed all the city, all the houses, buildings. The family had lost everything. (I suggest you to have a look with internet to see Saint Pierre de la Martinique 's photographs after the disaster, it was exactly like Hiroshima after the bomb... ) My grand father was very shocked by this drama and left Martinique with his mother to live in Paris. He was student when Lilia died quite young and my grandfather Maurice became orphan. he was taken by his aunt Blanche Lawless (his father's sister) studied at the colonial school in Paris and made all its career in Africa in the colonial administration. He turned in Martinique for holidays in 1931 and get married my grandmother Constance de Reynal de Saint-Michel (she was also his niece, Constance 's father Georges de Reynal was a german cousin of Maurice, they were sons of a brother and a sister). In Martinique, kinships are very complicated because the white families get married between them.

If you know Wikipedia, I suggest you to have a look to "charles andré Maurice Assier de Pompignan", there i an interesting note about my grandfather with a photograph.

There is a detail that I don't understand, it seems to me that Edouard Thomas died very young aged of 34 but on the records you sent to me the age seems to be 42 ? what do you think about it ? Probably a mistake, I think there is no doubt about the fact "your" Edward Thomas is the same man that "my" Edouard Thomas (Is there an official act which indicates exactly that he was born in Castries on 1 may 1849 ? I suppose you have one, if not you would'nt be able to establish the relation between Edward Thomas and his family in west Indies !

I confirm there a no more Mac Hugh in west Indies, because the last Mac Hugh, Marie Thérèse Mc Hugh (Mrs Abreveux) died in 2011.

There is something singular, my grandfather's brother Robert Assier de Pompignan was in conflict with his family and left very young for Panama and we ever heard about him !! Perhaps the same thing happened with Edouard Thomas ??

A question : did your family kept in touch with the Grano who came also to Australia ? They were very close parents (Georges William Grano who came to Austalia was Edward Thomas 's uncle, perhaps he wanted to go close his uncle ?

I agree with you, "your" Mac Hugh look like mine !! I have been told Lilia was a very nice woman, and I agree, she looks like his brother !! he was a beautiful man too.

I remind you the first generations :

Robert Mac Hugh, décédé le 28 décembre 1859, Castries (île de Sainte Lucie, Antilles), trésorier de Sainte-Lucie, gouverneur par intérim de la colonie, habitant propriétaire à Sainte-Lucie et à la Dominique.
Marié le 17 janvier 1843, Roseau (île de la Dominique), avec Sophie Grano, née le 9 mai 1820, Roseau (Ile de la Dominique), décédée le 1er janvier 1894, Saint Pierre (Martinique) (à l'âge de 73 ans), dont

1) Emilie, née en 1846.
Mariée le 17 novembre 1868, Castries (Sainte-Lucie), avec Edward Dix, né à Névis, avocat, dont
- Édouard Dix
Marié avec Cécile Assier de Pompignan (sa cousine germaine) , née le 2 février 1880, Saint-Pierre (Martinique).

2) Edouard Thomas, né le 1er mai 1849, Castries (Sainte-Lucie), baptisé le 19 juin 1849, Castries (Sainte-Lucie), décédé le 19 février 1884, Carlton (Australie) (à l'âge de 34 ans).
Marié le 1er décembre 1876, Melbourne (Australie), avec Ellen Conniry, née, County of Galway (Irlande), dont
- Edward Thomas, né le 28 juin 1877, Carlton, Melbourne (Australie), décédé le 9 mars 1941 (à l'âge de 63 ans).
Marié le 12 novembre 1913, Melbourne (Australie), avec Mary O'Donoghue.
- Ellen Maud, née en 1879, Carlton, Melbourne (Australie), décédée en 1882 (à l'âge de 3 ans).
- May Ann, née, Carlton, Melbourne (Australie).
- John, né en 1883, Carlton, Melbourne (Australie), décédé en 1884 (à l'âge de un an).

3) Marie Emma, née le 14 janvier 1851, Castries (Ste Lucie), baptisée le 1er mars 1851, Castries (Sainte Lucie), décédée le 24 avril 1876, Saint-Pierre (Martinique) (à l'âge de 25 ans).
Mariée le 7 octobre 1874, église de l'Immaculée-Conception, Castries (Sainte-Lucie), avec Alexandre Vaudein, né le 23 juillet 1852, Saint-Pierre (Martinique), décédé le 12 avril 1883, Fort-de-France (Martinique) (à l'âge de 30 ans).

4) Lilia, née le 3 décembre 1852, Castries, Sainte Lucie, Antilles, décédée en 1909, Paris (à l'âge de 57 ans).
Mariée en 1872, Castries (Sainte Lucie), avec Anatole Assier de Pompignan, né le 11 juin 1846, Saint- Pierre (Martinique), décédé le 6 octobre 1893, Saint- Pierre (Martinique) (à l'âge de 47 ans), propriétaire, dont
- Henri, né le 12 octobre 1873, Saint- Pierre (Martinique), décédé le 13 août 1952, Fort de France (Martinique) (à l'âge de 78 ans).
Marié le 12 novembre 1902, Le Lamentin (Martinique), avec Marguerite de Gentile, née le 24 septembre 1882, Saint-Pierre (Martinique),
- Gabrielle, née le 8 septembre 1876, Ile de la Dominique, Antilles,
Mariée le 18 novembre 1896, Saint-Pierre (Martinique), avec Gaston Jouye de Grandmaison, né le 21 janvier 1871, Saint-Pierre (Martinique), décédé le 8 mai 1902, Saint-Pierre (Martinique) (à l'âge de 31 ans), architecte ingénieur.
Mariée le 11 avril 1904 avec Édouard Boullanger, né le 23 juin 1881, Saint-Pierre, Martinique, décédé le 15 janvier 1958, Schoelcher, Martinique (à l'âge de 76 ans).
- Françoise.
- Cécile, née le 2 février 1880, Saint-Pierre (Martinique).
Mariée avec Édouard Dix (son cousin germain)
Mariée avec Jules Salles Miquelle.
- Robert, né le 19 septembre 1881, Saint-Pierre (Martinique)
- René, né le 24 juin 1883, Saint-Pierre (Martinique).
- Maurice, né le 30 novembre 1889, Saint-Pierre (Martinique), décédé le 30 août 1952, Paris 7e, inhumé le 2 septembre 1952, Cimetière des Batignolles (Paris) (à l'âge de 62 ans), gouverneur des colonies.
Marié le 5 mars 1931, Fort de France (Martinique), avec Constance de Reynal de Saint-Michel, née le 31 mai 1908, Fort-de-France (Martinique), décédée le 4 décembre 1984, Paris 15e (à l'âge de 76 ans).

5) Robert Georges, né vers 1855, Castres (Sainte-Lucie), fondateur de la revue "The voice of Saint Lucia", conseiller, président du conseil municipal de Castries.
Marié le 8 septembre 1868, Ste-Lucie, avec Marie Rual de Lomel, dont
- Eugénie, née le 9 décembre 1870, Castries (Sainte-Lucie), décédée le 20 mars 1938, Fort-de-France (à l'âge de 67 ans).
Mariée le 29 août 1892, Castries (Sainte-Lucie), avec Joseph Plissonneau Duquène, né le 13 novembre 1864, Saint-Pierre (Martinique), décédé le 18 mai 1902, Castries (Sainte-Lucie) (à l'âge de 37 ans).
- Marie.
- Laurence.

6) Charles, né le 17 avril 1857, Castries, Ste Lucie, baptisé le 14 mai 1857, Castries, ste Lucie, décédé le 8 mai 1902, Saint-Pierre (Martinique) (à l'âge de 45 ans).
Marié le 10 décembre 1890, Saint-Pierre (Martinique), avec Rachel Plissonneau Duquène, née le 6 mai 1872, Saint-Pierre (Martinique), décédée le 10 décembre 1950 (à l'âge de 78 ans), dont
- Emma, Religieuse.
- Thérèse, née le 8 novembre 1893, Fort-de-France (Martinique), décédée le 16 mars 1982, Fort-de-France (Martinique) (à l'âge de 88 ans).
Mariée avec Charles Gallet de Saint-Aurin, né le 12 juillet 1884, Fort-de-France (Martinique), décédé le 29 avril 1936, Fort-de-France (à l'âge de 51 ans), notaire.
- Lucie, née le 23 juillet 1895, St Pierre, Martinique, décédée le 6 novembre 1927, Fort de France (Martinique) (à l'âge de 32 ans).
Mariée en 1918, Fort de France (Martinique), avec Léon Gallet de Saint-Aurin, né le 18 décembre 1886, Diamant,Dizac(Martinique), décédé le 16 septembre 1973, Diamant,Dizac(Martinique) (à l'âge de 86 ans).
- Robert, né le 26 mai 1899, Saint-Pierre, Martinique.
Marié en 1926, Lamentin, Guadeloupe, avec Marie Littée, née le 29 mai 1907, Saint-Joseph (Martinique).


I hope getting news from you ! So exciting to discover this part of the family ! you have so many cousins in Martinique and France !!

best regards my cousin (not so distant !!)

Emmanuel
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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby Emmanuel Rougier » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:13 pm

To Ian Mac Hugh

Dear Ian,

Just to confirm I have received your last message with photos. Could you please send me a private message with your email address because I would like to have with you private messages. but I don't know how to do ! Many thanks.

Emmanuel

I would like to know more about your grand father and father's job, yourself , children, etc...
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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby bimjim » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:37 pm

Sending a PM is very easy... here is how...
viewtopic.php?t=6858

HTH

Jim
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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby Ian McHugh » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:57 pm

Hi Emmanuel,

I will send you a private message but just in reply to your last email, here is some more information:

The photograph of Edward Thomas McHugh must be of his son, Edward Thomas, my grandfather. I found some archives about the photographic studio and they only commenced in 1893 - at which stage the immigrant Edward Thomas was dead.

As far as his age at death goes, it was certainly 34 years, not 42 years - sometimes they made errors in the Death Certificates if no Birth Certificate existed.

The Marriage Certificate has his age correct at 27 years in 1876.

There is also no doubt that Edward Thomas is the brother of Lilia. The Marriage Certificate shows his place of Birth as "West Indies" and his parents as:
"Robert Garraway McHugh, Treasurer" and "Sophie Grano"

As far as I know, there has never been any contact between the Grano and McHugh families in Australia. No one has ever mentioned Grano to us as distant relations.

Best Wishes,

Ian
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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby Ian McHugh » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:30 pm

Hi Emmanuel,
Did you get my private message with my contact email address?

Ian
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Re: GRANO, BRODBELT - Martinique, Dominica, St. Kitts/Nevis

Postby john hawkins » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:23 am

The following is interesting in showing the state of mind of John Baptist Grano. Fortune tellers were adept at giving the information the subject was wanting to hear who in this case actually wrote it down.

Extract of Diary of John Baptist Grano, 22 June 1828 pages 48 to 49
….Paid a visit to the Ladies in the Oak, when they drew me in to cast a Cup of Coffee….
An old Woman, (see note) a Skilfull Dame reckon’d in this art, look[ed] into the Cup, who said I certainly should receive Eight Sums of Money successfully [sic], but they would be small, though enough to support me in this Place very well, and that while I staid here I should want for Nothing; that there was a person near the King would do me eminent Service; that 2 or 3 persons would Die, one or two of which would leave me something worth my Acceptance; that I should go beyond Seas, and should not lay my Bones in England; and desir’d me not to forget Her when the Seas should role, the Tempest rise, and I landed on a Pleasant Isle where I should tread on ground of my own, lead a contented Life and valued among the Natives.

Note by Ginger: Marie Migault – whose sometimes embarrassing knowledge of Grano’s personal circumstances gives her an advantage as a fortune-teller. She will be aware of his flight to Holland in 1719, as she is of his early marriage.
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